Posts by Fahelus

    I will use the following data becouse I eliminated my character long time ago but for some reason im still checking game updates once every several months.

    Player A

    647 - 718 Damage
    683 Average Damage

    Player B

    26000 Armor
    393 Average Damage Reduction

    To get values such as normal hit we must give some frequency to given player for chance of hitting. Since the quoted attributes are from a high level player I will estimate what a capped player vs an uncapped can aspire for.

    Say player A is capped and player B don't (also player B doesn't have 50% critical hits, but other attributes are on top, like % blocking normal attacks, etc.)

    So for most of as in battle our advantage will look something like this:

    1) 10% Hitting chance

    2) 8% Double Hit chance

    3) 8% Critical Hit.

    1) 10 percent comes from 55% minus 45% giving a 10% advantage. (Witch is roughly a 20% advantage vs opponent agility. See 50/50+40 = 0.55 periodic)

    2) 8 percent comes from a 1.5 advantage in double hits formula. See: (75/50) * 10 = 15%. And, (50/75) *10 = 7%

    3) 8 percent comes from 50% minus 42% (I choosed this number for player B, seems razonable).

    So now we will estimate how much damage advantage we have from each class per round if damage and defense values for A and B are roughly close.

    A normal hit on B:

    (((683 - 393)*0.275)*0.10)*0.5) = 4

    A hit was blocked by B:

    683 - (393 * 2) = 0

    Total normal hit = 4 + 0 = 4

    A critical hit on B:

    ((((683 * 2) - 393)*0.275)*0.75)*0.08) = 16

    A critical hit blocked by B:

    I know this by memory it's roughly equal to a normal hit, so this will be 4. (I don't remember the formula, if someone think this is considerably wrong correct me).

    Total critical hit = 16 + 4 = 20.

    A double hit on B:

    (4 + 16 + 4) * 0.08 = 2

    So this will give player A an advantage of 26 points per round or 390 points per battle. (26 * 15 rounds). This suggest player A is a small favourite to win the fight. (If you are curious then calculate for total % not just the advantage, for example, first class will look like this for player A: (((683 - 393)*0.275)*0.5) = 40, and so on) Then divide A battle damage with B battle damage and do: 1 / ((result of division) + 1) and lastly (1 - result) * 100 = percentage for winning a battle for A, percentage of winning for B is the complement.

    As for what is being discussed I also think critical hits occur way too often and it doesn't resembles a fight (in fact when attributes are topped it's the most frequent hit). Also important, trainable stats should not be capped (this is the only way to improve % of winning for the better player, aside from crafting) solely focusing on critical hits will just skew how points are dristributed per round but will not affect the end result. For this to be efficient ruby items should not be able to trade for gold.

    Before continuing reading I strongly recommend you to re-read my answers if you really want to understand the randomness in battles and in general.

    By the time you finish reading this thread you will know your edge in % and how to calculate it in any battle.

    Im going to correct you from your last answer, but if you didn't cheat on me and re-read all over you should know the answers by yourself.

    Fair enough but if i want to gamble,i’m gonna go to a casino and put some money on poker...

    I'm not promoting gambling, all the examples I made it was to show how probabilities or percentages works because the battles revolves on them.

    In gladiatus you supposed to do something to win a battle,not just put your money on the red and wait!!We can use gods,we can train,we can forge clothes and so on...I don’t expect to win all the battles,but come on,when you are better with hundreds of stat,damage and armo then tell me what is the purpose of all?

    The porpouse of all is to increase what is bolded in red in the following spoiler:

    Now let's calculate how big of a favourite you are, I will simplify the game just a bit, leaving alone critical hits.

    Now you may be thinking if you make more damage per combat then why don't you always win? Well, that would be true If you had 100% of hitting.

    Reality is you have 59% of hitting, the other 41% you make 0 damage or in other words you miss, that is to say, before you even think of hitting both elements are taken in consideration. This is why I like to put examples with dices.

    Moving on, besides your opponent chance of winning, there is the standard deviation wich I had mentioned before to ramble things in low amounts of combats.

    So in essense, having more damage in a full combat could resemble having more numbers on a dice or a higher % of winning.

    Hopefully now you got a grasp on how randomness affects the game.

    with stat cap there is a possibility for players who invest their time and others, that invest their money, of achieving same progress level so they can compete with each other

    I wouldn't call compete being all equal.

    At 140 level single level up costs me 320kk to imporve all my stats +5. So without any event (just -40%) it would cost about 190kk. I think it's hard to get more money that that during single level without making hard underworld just... forever...

    This was a poor decision as many from GF for the game, you shouldn't be able to make more gold on a dungeon from 40 levels ago than on a more advanced one.

    What is left unquoted from your post, if you would read one of my older threads you will get my answer.

    Lastly, the way your whole answer make me see stats caps is off a flawed alternative to avoid the corruption of the game from money.

    Now think, i have 10 lvl. Still have 25kk in gold. There is comming -20% discount event, i could get stats that 99,9% players will have at ~80lvl

    You have a talent at selling golden tools and training at 60% discount, yet i'm searching for sound answers

    and is so much fun... :)

    as zachwiany says, i beat arena 2-9 without any eq... Fun of the year, now imagine i was even stonger, i pay more $$$, think what other players can feal about it. Leave it at is it

    The damage is already done but soon enough as they keep making bad decisions you will be left playing alone

    Now think, i have 10 lvl. Still have 25kk in gold. There is comming -20% discount event, i could get stats that 99,9% players will have at ~80lvl

    You have a talent at selling golden tools and training at 60% discount, yet i'm searching for sound answers

    That will take time, nevertheless simplified game or not the idea and mechanics are the same if you watch the 10000 battle reports and the expected or average damage for n or x should be the one previously fabricated, 27 and 36 respectively. The same applies for whatever other stat you wanna watch for.

    Continuing we can see on our simplified game that x is the favourite but in the process of the combats he may lose for periods of battles, but in the end he will win most of it. And this is true in gladiatus as well, notice the thiner the edges the higher the desviation of what is expected (or putting in another way your opponent has a higher % of winning) , creating more varied results with more frequencie.

    Furthermore, every difference in stats translate to a edge in % for battles, and in high levels there are stats caps naturally reducing them, for example imagine if we had a dice of 100 faces, and 51 are good ones, madness will happen in short trials. This resembles a 51% favourite or in other words 49% to lose the fight.

    just_beRO much of what I cared to clarify it has been done so I will continue from there

    Thx for the some clarification! I made this post because let’s say I’m better from my opponent although most of the time I’m loosing from 5, 3 battles...i made a picture of a recent battle,if that helps!!on the other hand there are days when i was hit by bigger lvl player and stronger also, 5 time,he lost against me all 5 times...

    You have an edge and what you are saying is normal, it's in the posibilities to occasionally happen this small periods of losing, but if you continued attacking him you will get the most out of him. I know it's frustrating but the reverse situation goes for you by winning against the stronger player as well.

    The way I see it is worst odds must win their fair share as much as the better ones do.

    Furthermore, I calculated the standard deviation from what is expected in amounts of hits for you and your opponent on one combat, the result is aproximately 5 and 6 respectively, that is to say, how far off actual times either one of you may hit defying given odds.

    This explains why sometimes hitten times are skewed in battle reports, i.e, you may hit 2 times more or your opponent 4 times less than he should on average.

    40% does not guarantee in 15 rounds to have 6 hits.

    I asumed you read all of my last posts so I used the word guaranteed rather than expected because you said the following:

    25% critical hit vs 50% critical hit doesnt mean that 50% is stronger

    The whole dice thing was an example to make it clear that having better stats makes you stronger in one or 1000 battles.

    If you re-read my last pharagraph of what you quoted me, I said most of what you are saying in other words.

    Forget for a moment both stats of the gladiators I made in my simplified game and let's make them fight 10000 times, then we plug the reports into a database and analise the average or expected damage, hitten rounds and blocked hits per combat for n and x. I can guarantee you it will converge on the stats given to begin with.

    And as you mentioned it, now the RNG comes in, to make sure every probability for every 10000 combats are fairly executed without patterns inside given rules.

    25% critical hit vs 50% critical hit doesnt mean that 50% is stronger

    I will bet money to the guy that has 50% critical hit.

    The thing is there are other important factors that disguises that high probability.

    For instanse you may think that are 15 rounds, but in reality the amount of rounds you have is determined by the % of hitting and the % double hitting (I won't talk on the latter for simplicity)

    Say if you have 40%, then all of the sudden you have only 6 guaranteed rounds to hit. And of those 6 rounds half of them will be critical hits, leaving 3.

    If we assume both have 40% of hitting, for the porpous of this post, the odds are close enough to resemble a dice. The favourite picks 3 numbers the underdog 2 and 1 number is burned.

    If you roll it 6 times (the rounds we are guaranteed at least hitting) it is fair that the underdog may win.

    As this is a game of probability hence what is expected diverges on small sample sizes, doesn't mean the favourite is weaker or equal to the underdog.

    Forget my earlier post before continue reading this thread. You have a confusion on how stats work.

    I will make up a battle report simulating a simplified version of the game for you with just: damage, % of hitting the opponent and % of blocking hits.

    Rule #1: If a hit is blocked, damage is reduced by 50%.

    Rule #2: Combat ends at 10 rounds.

    Gladiator "n" has:

    10 damage

    30% hitting the opponent

    50% blocking hits

    Gladiator "x" has:

    12 damage

    40% hitting the opponent

    20% blocking hits

    Expected damage for n is:

    [(10 rounds)*(30% hitting the opponent)]*[(10 damage)*(80% clean hit) + [(10 damage)*(20% blocked hit)]/50%)]

    [10 * (0.3) ]*[ (10 * (0.8)) + (10 * 0.2)/2] = 27

    Expected damage for x is:

    [(10 rounds)*(40% hitting the opponent)]*[(12 damage) * (50% clean hit) + ((12 damage) * (50% blocked hit)/50%)]

    [10 * (0.4) ]*[(12 * 0.5) + [(12 * 0.5)]/2] = 36

    Hopefully you have now a better feel of whats going on behind battles and know is quite clear that in order to block the opponent he first must hit, and the times he hits its determinated by the number of rounds and his probability of hitting.

    The "random" can be lowered...

    I think you call random the chance of being a favourite and losing, this is only reduced by being a bigger favourite, the better you are the less randomness or less likely to lose in one single battle. On the long run is like the dice example from the previous post, your favouritism or lack off will converge on some percentail.

    I'm not sure but I think you are saying that you win all the time againts an opponent and losing to him 3-4 times rarely.

    Having slightly better or better stats means you are the favourite to win. Doesn't mean you will always win. This is because the core of stats are percentails. Moreover, at high levels with the stats cap the edges you can get between players are reduced if any.

    For more clarity, lets say fights are determined by 10 face dices.

    If you have slightly better stats, then you will have 6 good numbers and 4 bad numbers, hence, winning the mayority of the time.

    If you have better stats, then you will have 8 good numbers and 2 bad numbers, hence, winning most of the time.

    The bigger the stats edge the lesser your opponent will win on a fighting database.

    If you post a battle report againts your enemy I will give you a better answer, if needed it.

    And I agree too that it will be nice if random can be lowered, maybe limiting the block chance at 20%...

    Random won't be lowered, what will change is the value of other attributes.

    Let's slice on two the discussion, we will start at levels <100.

    GF removed tons of rulles with one simple explanation: "If the game allows it so do we."

    There are a fiew exeptions but never the less, caps are here to prevent level 20 gladiators having 500 stats.

    I don't know if you are aware that are some clowns are selling gold tools at low level and manage to have silly stats and still caps are here and they have a mile to reach them. The problem is not the amount of stats, it's how they made them.

    Now let's talk about levels > 99

    Now if you are level 100 and you have all stats maxed, congratz. Save your gold for the next level or spend it on resourses.

    In all the servers accross spain from the begining of the year the activity has decreased 50%, I don't reached level +100 myself but I don't like the idea of having 20 clones in my arena and playing to flip a coin in the air to see who wins, or maybe you are rich and can have wathever equipment you want to have to give you a tiny advantage but eventually you will be catched up because there's no much of anything to do.

    Conclusion, stats caps shown innefective at low levels, and at high levels are plain bad for the game.

    I hope we all take from this post that the priority today is freeing the higher levels.

    Fahelus pushing was removed, you won't be baned for it anymore :)

    Well then would you care to explain the following?

    I'm against this, because pushing would be a thing again and that was no fun. This way there are a least some limitations.

    Btw this was asked for on old forums many years ago and it didn't change.

    How is beneficial or detrimental to have stats caps?

    And notice the game is very different from many years ago, nowadays reaching top stats at high levels is easy.

    I'm not pushed if you mean this ;)

    I sell items in avg price on market

    I highly doubt that. You have only 544 sold items on the market so you made it by selling golden tools or a bug. Either way is irrelevant for the topic.

    I agree with OP.

    For me the stats cap are silly.

    I'm against this, because pushing would be a thing again and that was no fun. This way there are a least some limitations.

    I'm not sure what you mean by pushing, if it is passing gold between players that can be tracked.

    Se perdió el 50% de actividad en todos los servidores de españa en relación al comienzo del año.

    En el mientras tanto hacen este foro para poder hacer spam en 15 idiomas diferentes, cuánto tiempo se gastó?

    Errores y malas decisiones...

    El error más grande hoy es el tope de básicos y es por donde hay que empezar.

    Hay malas decisiones o implementaciónes en los cambios importantes del juego. Por nombrar algúnas recientes como la útilidad de la inteligencia y los servidores con vélocidades qué por si solas son buenas ideas como tantas otras del pasado. Sin embargo, estás y otras son aplicadas de la peor manera por no decir más.

    Conclusión, en un par de años más si no se empiezan a solucionar estos errores u formas de implementación y no se hace un mínimo análisis se terminarán fusionando todos los servidores quedando únicamente diferenciados por vélocidades, es decir, el comienzo del fin.

    Si tuviera que decir una fecha sería en junio de 2020. Claro, hablo de españa, no sé de otras comunidades.

    Hasta nunca.