Solution to the weirdest RNG

  • Hi. I think I'm a little late to this post.

    I also think Critical Hit should be fixed, since is the main problem for RNG extreme losses on battle.

    However, I don't think any direct modifications to Critical Hit Stat are actually the solution. I think the problem can be solved by attacking another problem of RNG that seems to be underestimated, and that is Resilience.

    The way Resilience works right now is pretty much useless. As it doesn't even matter if you have it maxed at 25%, the fight is still decided by the 50% Critical chance.

    This is my suggestion:

    Change the way Resilience works. Instead of being "Chance for avoiding a critical hit", make it "Damage reduction on critical hits".
    This way, even if we lose the insane "Critical hit lottery" we have a chance to still win the fight based on an actual stat, without getting rid of that RNG element that Gladiatus seems to love.

    Right Now:

    Player A

    647 - 718 Damage
    683 Average Damage

    Player B

    26000 Armor
    393 Average Damage Reduction


    A normal hit on B

    683 - 393 = 290

    A Double hit on B

    290 + 290 = 580

    A Critical Hit on B

    683 * 2 = 1366 - 393 = 973

    Right now, Resilience gives player B a 1 in 4 chance to avoid that 3.3 multiplied dmg.

    Suggestion:

    Same stats

    Resilience at 25% (Damage reduction on Crit)

    A Critical Hit on B

    683 * 2 = 1366 - 25% = 1024.5 - 393 = 631.5 Wich is still more than a Double hit. Still more than 2 times the normal damage, and is not crazy 3.3 times that we have right now.

    This also avoids the problem of the 100 rounds suggestion of consuming tons of HP.

    Well thats my opinion, hope its not to late on post. :)

  • How come I haven't seen this thread before, huh? Anyway.



    Current arena system is totally ridiculous, I was collecting screenshot of ridiculous fights but after like 2 days I gave up because I've already managed to get like a 100 of them.

    but I did managed to see a pattern the person who wins the fight, in 99% of the cases wins by striking 2 critical attacks most of the time in a row. Which is similar to what you have said.

    Also it is much better to attack people stronger than you than people weaker than you, for some reason the algorithm works in your favour more times when the opponent is stronger than you.

    Also the statistics currently are totally useless, after you get to around ~ 650 you don't need any more as long as you got a lot of armour and damage.


    Let's say you have 1200 Dexterity and your opponent has 650 he will have roughly 40% to hit you, you will have roughly 52% to hit him.. Which is bullshit because 550 dexterity is a lot, back in the day when charisma was the most important statistic this issue was non-existent because everyone was investing in charisma and if you had a lot more than your opponent you would win - which was annoying for a lot of people because the charisma pact was insanely strong, but it still was much better than it is now.. because at higher level everyone had the same amount of charisma anyway so it was even, and then your items were much more important.


    There is also an issue in CT fights, I don't know if any of you realised but sometimes you lose something-something to 0(that means the opponent killed of all your soldiers). I have a few of these fights a day, and this is the perfect representation of everything that is wrong with the fighting system - if you look at the fight report you will see all the patterns


    Have a look at this album: https://imgur.com/a/rUye5Jo

    All those screen-shots come from the same fight, you can see the patterns in critical strikes 95% of the time they're in twos.



    Also I think there is too many calculations being done while you're fighting, too many variables and not enough of a "error-margin" which in the end leads to something like 1/3 to win a fight vs 2/3 to win a fight which is not much.


    To sum up:


    Something needs to be done about this and needs to be done quickly, I'm actually taking another brake from the game until something gets done about this because it's currently too much frustration to lose 90% of the fights that you shouldn't lose... but we all know nothing will get done. :) (same way as there suppose to be a update this year with Magus changes.. where is it huh?)

  • We need to revive this topic, and find some one who can write in German and post it on the German side of the forum. This is one of the most important topics right now, all COMA's should unite and write to GF to change this bs or this game will eventually die (or maybe this is the point?)

  • At first thanks for that thread, and all information. The problem is known and there is no need to translate and post on DE board. The board is internatioal and we all can read it :D

  • I will use the following data becouse I eliminated my character long time ago but for some reason im still checking game updates once every several months.


    Player A

    647 - 718 Damage
    683 Average Damage

    Player B

    26000 Armor
    393 Average Damage Reduction


    To get values such as normal hit we must give some frequency to given player for chance of hitting. Since the quoted attributes are from a high level player I will estimate what a capped player vs an uncapped can aspire for.


    Say player A is capped and player B don't (also player B doesn't have 50% critical hits, but other attributes are on top, like % blocking normal attacks, etc.)


    So for most of as in battle our advantage will look something like this:


    1) 10% Hitting chance

    2) 8% Double Hit chance

    3) 8% Critical Hit.



    1) 10 percent comes from 55% minus 45% giving a 10% advantage. (Witch is roughly a 20% advantage vs opponent agility. See 50/50+40 = 0.55 periodic)


    2) 8 percent comes from a 1.5 advantage in double hits formula. See: (75/50) * 10 = 15%. And, (50/75) *10 = 7%


    3) 8 percent comes from 50% minus 42% (I choosed this number for player B, seems razonable).



    So now we will estimate how much damage advantage we have from each class per round if damage and defense values for A and B are roughly close.



    A normal hit on B:


    (((683 - 393)*0.275)*0.10)*0.5) = 4


    A hit was blocked by B:


    683 - (393 * 2) = 0


    Total normal hit = 4 + 0 = 4


    A critical hit on B:


    ((((683 * 2) - 393)*0.275)*0.75)*0.08) = 16


    A critical hit blocked by B:


    I know this by memory it's roughly equal to a normal hit, so this will be 4. (I don't remember the formula, if someone think this is considerably wrong correct me).

    Total critical hit = 16 + 4 = 20.


    A double hit on B:


    (4 + 16 + 4) * 0.08 = 2



    So this will give player A an advantage of 26 points per round or 390 points per battle. (26 * 15 rounds). This suggest player A is a small favourite to win the fight. (If you are curious then calculate for total % not just the advantage, for example, first class will look like this for player A: (((683 - 393)*0.275)*0.5) = 40, and so on) Then divide A battle damage with B battle damage and do: 1 / ((result of division) + 1) and lastly (1 - result) * 100 = percentage for winning a battle for A, percentage of winning for B is the complement.



    As for what is being discussed I also think critical hits occur way too often and it doesn't resembles a fight (in fact when attributes are topped it's the most frequent hit). Also important, trainable stats should not be capped (this is the only way to improve % of winning for the better player, aside from crafting) solely focusing on critical hits will just skew how points are dristributed per round but will not affect the end result. For this to be efficient ruby items should not be able to trade for gold.

    Edited 6 times, last by Fahelus: Forgot to write about the discussion, typos, had a confusion with critical blocked hits, removed and added text. ().

  • At first thanks for that thread, and all information. The problem is known and there is no need to translate and post on DE board. The board is internatioal and we all can read it :D

    Yeah but there is not action, we were promised so many things this year. It's end of the year in a couple of weeks and we still haven't even gotten half of what we were promised.

    I know gladiatus is an old game, and it's the lowest priority for gameforge - they don't even advertise they game anymore on any of their pages, but either start taking SOME care of the game or just close it down for good, just like you did to metal-damage years back. :) I'm really not trying to be rude, just real. I can bet both of my hands there isn't more than 4 people working on this game.

    If you want just hire me, as long as I can work remotely from home I will fix this game in no time. :)

  • This is getting ridiculous already. Yesterday we lost to top players on S4, who invested a ton o cash on rubies with Centurion, Pacts and probably re-forging attempts because they just couldn't stand losing 50% of their battles to lower levels and the disgraceful speed-servers. One of them was kind of a Great Wall, so a strong player that the only way to knock him down was with all L3 blessing plus as many reinforcements as possible and still was a matter of luck

  • Yeh, I put my account in holiday mode because this game is not changing and there is no hope for change either.

    + Gameforge does not give us inside in what they want to do with the game

    + ALL FEEDBACK goes straight to the bin of gameforge.



    But there is hope. Nightmare just added the tag Discussion to this topic. So I guess they are aware of the game's condition.

    Now it will take a year or 2 before they do something with it. :)


    Hope they will keep a close eye on this topic as there are severable points that are annoying the players who are playing now. I have been calling them for years, but nobody listened. If a company does not do anything with the feedback of their customers, the game/product is meant to fail. This is what gladiatus/gameforge has done the past 12 years.

  • I am too in a break from the game. I hit my goal of dinging level 120 which has been a goal of me for the last couple of years. However, dinging level 120 made me lose hope to play anymore. Here are couple of reasons why:


    1. It took me 2 years to level from 100 something to 120. And i have to say, it has been quite a journey but what happened when i dinged 120? I moved to Britannia to fight in an expedition and no dungeon..... and i have to do this another 10 levels until i reach the next expedition, which will probably take me another year if i play seriously. What will i get for all my work and real life money for this 1 year? 4 new mobs with 5%-10% more rewards in terms of gold/honour items. Is it worth it? No.


    2. I over burnt myself ... this is entirely my fault and not Gameforge's. I dinged 2 chars to 120 at the same time, while playing a 3rd one from 1 to 102 (takes a year or two as well) and another one on a speed server (just to see what it's like). Gladiatus, being a great game overall, is not just an ordinary browser game ... it requires a lot of time. Now multiply this x4.... I am a long term Blizzard fan and I've been playing WoW, Diablo and other Blizzard games since 2000 and i think i've not invested as much money in Blizzard than in Gameforge to run my characters. The game is just not fair since Forging came. Yes forging is great addition to the game but it also gave birth to these monstrous characters wearing all Red from top to bottom, not only on their main chars but on all mercs too... Let's face it ... Forging became the only way to properly gear yourself and yes some players have found a way to do it without spending 100s of Euro but most of us ... playing the game as it is ... have to pay 20 euro to try a forge in a respectful manner. I am far from poor but even 100 euro spent for games per month is unreasonable, even if i can afford it. It's just stupid in front of my wife and child.


    3. Speed servers are also a major factor in my lost appetite for the game. Seeing how beneficial they are, i kind of feel that i wasted my 10 years in playing the game when someone can do it 5 times quicker now....


    Although i don't play for 3 months already, i am active on building the site so don't get discouraged to continue sending me feedback. You've all been great and keep it up


    Shame that the last response from GF was January 2018 (1 year ago) telling us that they are working on the game and we haven't heard from them.

  • Reason for that is very simple, GF just do not see Gladiatus like profitable enough to put more they time and money in development that game. Even there is not Gladaitus on they official page....

    One of the biggest reason why they kept Gladaitus "alive" because is cheap to maintain.


    But I think that Gladaitus will develop over time but very slowly...


    I do not judge GF for that because they are just a firm that must think about they profit which is needed to pay workers and all other costs.... but I judge them maybe only because they promise things that they did not (or cannot) fulfil.

    Dark-Assassin



    s2

    s8


  • This is true, but on the other hand we (as in players) feel more and more cheated each day, we put time and money into the game so GF should do the same. This is such an old game with such an old "engine" that there is no need for a big development team, 2-3 people could easily maintain the game, but GF doesn't even want to do that. Once, twice a year they give some developer 2-4 tasks to do that take couple of days and then they release them in batches to make it look like they're working on something, which in reality is pure BS.

    They should've closed the game long time ago like they did to metal-damage, or they should've sold it like they did with BiteFight.

  • I've been told that critical hits are just double damage of the normal hit. I am up for decreasing this to compensate for crazy RNG. I would prefer in general the game to be redesigned in general so that hit chance is high (~90ish %) that way even if the crits stay the same it won't be so RNG. I continue to think that the biggest broken thing in the game is the low hit chance and not the crit so much. Most of the insane RNG appears to come from crazy critical hits but that won't be an issue and so RNG if the hit chance is not in the 50ish %.




    Yes, I agree with this.

    My team fellow Frksan, find this:

    http://prntscr.com/m752gf

    http://prntscr.com/m752wl


    And that is from 2012....

    But that is not perfect solution because what if percentage for hit is bigger than 50%?



    Anyway that gave me idea:


    If I analyzed well, current functioning of battle looks like :


    • first event is do you hit or not (and the problem is ,percentage of that in most cases is around 50%, so you have around 50% to miss, that why is too many misses per battle)
    • (that happened if you manage to hit) second event is do enemy block that hit or not, block is often 50% so you again have 50-50...

    Problem is in first event, I think that can be fixed just by multiplying percentage of hit by 1.5 (or something like that). And because of that we will have more chances to hit enemy, which mean more hits per battle what pulls more fair outcome of battle.

    Dark-Assassin



    s2

    s8

  • Problem is in first event, I think that can be fixed just by multiplying percentage of hit by 1.5 (or something like that). And because of that we will have more chances to hit enemy, which mean more hits per battle what pulls more fair outcome of battle.

    One downside of that is it would reduce even more the difference between well-trained and undertrained gladiators. Something that I hear regularly is that stats do not make enough of a difference infight, which can feel very unfair to well-trained characters.

  • hmm, I think that is interesting to analyze that:


    Chance for hit = Your Dexterity/(Your Dexterity + Enemies Agility) x 100 [round down]

    Chance for double hit = Your Charisma * Your Dexterity / Enemy Intelligence / Enemy Agility * 10


    Total Resilience/hardening value = (Agility/10) [round down] + hardening value from items

    Your maximum cap for amassing hardening value is = FLOOR.MATH(24.5*4*(Character Level-8)/52)+1

    Chance to avoid critical hits = (Resilience * 52 / (Character Level-8 )) / 4


    Total Blocking value = (Strength/10) [round down] + Block value from items

    Your maximum cap for amassing Blocking value is = FLOOR.MATH(49.5*6*(Character Level-8)/52)+1

    Chance to block a hit = (Blocking value * 52 / (Character Level-8 )) / 6


    (this is from Skarsburning fun page, thank you for that :) )



    But for now we will just analyze what happens with chance for hit, for example: you have 46% to hit, your enemy 44% ,difference between chances is 46-44=2 ,but when you multiply that with 1.5 you got:

    46*1.5=69, 44*1.5=66 so now difference is bigger 69-66=3, that mean you have now even more chances to hit in proportion to your enemy. So in this case, dexterity and agility is more important than before.

    But also dmg and armour still remains very important because you hit more often (importance of dmg) and you take more hits(importance of armour)

    Dark-Assassin



    s2

    s8